Young Gunners | "Three Sides of Justice" feat. Tim Adams

🎧 A new Young Gunners episode is live – and it’s a masterclass in perspective.

This week features Tim Adams, the 2026–2027 Chair‑Elect of Texas Young Lawyers Association and a Houston‑based criminal defense attorney whose career spans every corner of the criminal justice system. Tim’s path is rare: he began as a police officer in Gulfport, serving in Street Crimes, Narcotics, Criminal Investigations, and SWAT. After earning his degree in criminal justice, he moved to Texas, excelled at Thurgood Marshall School of Law, and went on to prosecute civil rights violations - holding law enforcement accountable from the inside.

Today, he leads his own criminal defense practice while also serving as a professor and Director of Advocacy at Thurgood Marshall School of Law. His episode explores what justice looks like when you’ve lived it from all three vantage points: officer, prosecutor, and defense attorney.

It’s a thoughtful, candid look at how experience shapes advocacy - and why the legal profession needs voices who’ve walked every side of the line.

Listen at the link below, or anywhere you get your podcasts: https://tyla.org/resource/young-gunners-podcast/

#younggunners #unlikelyadvocates #tyla #texasyounglawyers #podcast #legalpodcast #criminaljustice #defenseattorney #advocacy #civilrights #justicejourney

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to the Young Gunners Podcast, presented by the Texas Young Lawyers Association. This season, titled Unlikely Advocates, shines a spotlight on lawyers who overcame unexpected paths and personal challenges to become advocates in their communities. Through stories of perseverance, transformation, and purpose, we'll explore the many ways a law degree can be used to create meaningful change. I'm Rebecca Lopez, and I'm the District 13 Director of the Texas Young Lawyers Association, and an associate attorney at the law office of Richard Ganthu, PC, in McCallan, Texas.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

And I'm Jimmy Vaughn. I'm the District 33 Director of Texas Young Lawyers Association and an associate attorney at Field Manning Stone Acock PC in Lubbock, Texas. Our guest today is Timothy Adams, owner of the law office of Timothy Adams PLLC.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Timothy Adams is a Houston-based criminal defense attorney whose career uniquely spans every side of the criminal justice system. Tim began his professional career as a police officer with the Gulfport Police Department, serving specialized units including street crimes, narcotics, criminal investigations, and SWAT. After earning his degree in criminal justice from the University of Southern Mississippi, Tim moved to Texas and attended law school at Texas Southern University, Thurgood Marshall School of Law, where he excelled in advocacy and leadership before graduating with honors. He then served as a prosecutor in the civil rights division, investigating and prosecuting criminal misconduct by police officers. Today, Tim is a fellow practitioner leading a criminal defense firm while also serving as a professor and director of advocacy at Thurgood Marshall School of Law. Tim remains active in serving on the board of several legal organizations across Texas and was also recently elected as chair-elect of the Texas Young Lawyers for the 2026-2027 year.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Tim, man, what an impressive bio, man. You know, since you mentioned it and put it in there, I have to ask, is the movie SWAT anything like the real thing?

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Somewhat. Somewhat. Yeah, not completely, obviously, but there are some genuine elements in there. I like the move, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Oh, dude. It's an awesome movie. And for anybody who can't obviously see Tim today, he gives off very uh cool guys, don't look at explosion vibes. Oh, yeah, you know, Tim, you've held, you're a professional at basically all of the areas in the criminal justice system. You've held pr positions as a police officer, prosecutor, and now as a defense attorney. You know, when you look back, did it feel like this path was intentional to you? Or is it just kind of something that look makes sense looking at it through hindsight?

SPEAKER_03 2:49

I think it was intentional. Um, I think what's common in all those different areas is that in some way, shape, or form, I'm helping people. And um I've always been someone who likes to help people. You know, several, several people helped me growing up. And um, I'm happy to be able to give back in one facet or another. And so it just feels like criminal law is where I'm supposed to be in my little niche area, and it's never a dull day. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I mean, you have quite the impressive resume, and as Jimmy said, you've been able to um feel for the legal realm in you know three different aspects. You were a police officer, you were a prosecutor, and now you're a defense attorney. Um as a police officer, you special you service specialized units like narcotics, investigations, and SWAT. What do you think most lawyers, I mean even judges, uh, misunderstand about what really happens in that capacity?

SPEAKER_03 3:54

I think the biggest misconception or misunderstanding is how quickly things happen in on the streets. You know, as lawyers, we get to, for the most part, plan out things, you know, and go through dry runs. And if we make a mistake, oh, we'll just file a first amended or second amended motion. It's no big deal, right? You don't get that luxury on the streets. Um, a lot of times you are reacting to something that has happened, usually it's not something pleasant that has happened, and you've got to make a split-second decision on what to do, knowing that your actions will be judged by several people in the future. And so you have to balance doing what your training has taught you to do and what you know to do with being safe and also um, you know, just hoping to make it home. But I think if the lawyers really appreciated how quickly things happen, then maybe they'll be a little more sympathetic into like sometimes when things don't go perfectly on paperwork, like reports or things of that nature, or you know, you watch a video, body cam video, and um things weren't done 100% correct, there's a lot going on. And I'm not saying that officers shouldn't follow the rules. I mean, I'm saying the opposite, they should absolutely follow the rules, but there's a lot that goes on. It's not all cookie-cutter. And um I think if more lawyers and even judges thought about that side of it, I think that'll help the police officers a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Very interesting and um very valuable insight in your experience as a police officer and how that applies to your job today. Uh thank thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Absolutely. You know, it's a really good point that you guys are reacting fast. You know, the situation develops fast, and we do the best job we can to provide body camera and other things to help reconstruct the scene. You know, I've done a couple of cases for TMPA, and it's like everybody in the room is sitting there second guessing the officer's decision.

unknown 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

And that must have been an immense amount of pressure to be under when you were working in that field. Uh, so are there any experiences from law enforcement for that that influenced your decision to pursue law school?

SPEAKER_03 6:16

Uh, not from law enforcement. I grew up wanting to be a cop and a lawyer from watching TV shows. And so I um once I became a police officer, I was going to school, taking a couple classes here or there. And when I finished, um I still had that feeling. I remember writing one day with the guy I was assigned with, and I just had an epiphany that I feel like there's something else I'm supposed to be doing, something more that I can be doing with my life. And um, shortly thereafter, I was reminded by a good friend of mine that now that you finally have your undergraduate degree, your bachelor's degree, you can go to law school and do that next um thing that you wanted to do as a little kid. And so that was really it for me. I felt as if I had done a lot in law enforcement. Um and it was just time to do something new, something bigger, better, different. And um law school was that thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

You have an interesting take. A lot of kids grew, you know, have an idea of what they want to do. And then once we're adults, we're I have no idea what I want to do. No, you knew exactly what you wanted. You wanted to do two things, and it's like, okay, let me fit both into my life. Um, and so I mean, that's awesome. And and I mean you've done both. And in making that transition, when you're a police officer and then decided, okay, I I've I've accomplished this, I've experienced this, and now it's time for me to pursue uh the second career that I am interested in and and motivated to do, uh, becoming a police officer and transitioning to a law student, there can definitely be a shift. And that shift can be not just what you're doing, but I mean it's a cultural, psychological shift. What was the hardest thing about that transition? And did you ever feel like you had to unlearn some of the perspectives and things that you learned, the skills as a police officer, the way of thinking?

SPEAKER_03 8:14

The biggest part or the most interesting, I would say, part of that transition was being around students all day. And when I say students, I mean folks who are just gone straight through um, you know, high school, undergrad, law school. And here I am, I was 29 at the time I started law school. And these are some young 20-year-old folks who are stressed out over, I don't know, the barista got their Starbucks order wrong, or this professor expects us to read all this tonight, little things, right? And I'm like, okay, that, you know, that's fine, whatever. Um, and then also the expectation from some of my classmates that because I was a cop, I was somehow gonna just excel and get an A in law school. Um, law school, as everyone here knows, is a bunch of different subject areas. And um my experience as a police officer didn't even really help me in criminal law. It helped me a lot in criminal procedure, but I was a little frustrated actually with my criminal law professor because I didn't care about how things were done in the common law and you know, MPC and all. I just care about how things work today. This is how it goes right now. And so um there was also some the way my professor taught things, he would make some of it, and when he's talking about things that are happening right now, how policing happens right now, criminal law happens right now. And obviously, two days ago I was doing that work, and I'm not quite right, but you don't want to be the guy that constantly pushes back against the professor. Um, and so learn to sit there and you know, bite my tongue and uh just get through it. But that was a very challenging time for several reasons, but um I think it was the right decision, and I got through it certainly not with straight A's, but uh I got through it.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

So uh law school is a challenge for everybody. You know, it it's uh you get you get you know, we talked about this last podcast. You get 150 of the smartest people you've ever met in the room together. You make them fight to the death for a few A's, and the rest of you get B, C's, and D's. Yep. Um, so it's a highly competitive, highly pressurized environment. And imagine it's a little bit different from being a police officer where everything was camaraderie and well, maybe it wasn't everything was camaraderie, but it seems like that's part of the culture. You know, after law school, you became a prosecutor. So how what was it like jumping back into your profession just on the side of where you were um prosecuting police officers for criminal misconduct?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

It was a smooth transition for me. Uh when I started at the DA's office, I was in what we call trial bureau here in Harris County, and it was just working all the cases that came in. Um when I left there and went to civil rights division, I was I think my background as a police officer actually helped me get into the division because that division was filled with felony chief prosecutors, and then that was me. But I was the only prosecutor with that experience as a police officer. And given what we were prosecuting or who we were prosecuting, um, I was able to bring some value and a different perspective, I think, to the work that we were doing in the civil rights division. Um, the biggest thing is everything is not malicious that you see. You know, I think that's the biggest thing that the prosecutors look for, right? Because you're a prosecutor, you're trying to see if you have a case. And sometimes I would say, okay, well, yeah, I know what it looks like, but this is probably why this is going on this way. And, you know, maybe we should just ask these questions to see what he was thinking about and see if there's something else going on versus what we are just reading on this report or seeing on this video. Uh now, some things were just clear. It was just, I mean, there's nothing, there's no explanation for this, but uh I like to think that I was able to help where I could some of those gray area cases where it could go either way, uh, just give a different perspective than just the you know, cold lawyer look of, you know, examining facts and situations.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

So we all know, you know, being an attorney, you learn the skills to argue, research. Um the law is always changing, and so we need to be able to adapt with that. But but you bring in this um valuable um part of it, and that's the experience. And so not not many attorneys have that. I mean, you you work a job for a little bit, and you know, whatever field you decide to enter within you know the legal career, you you learn and then you become not an expert. I mean, we all want to be experts, right? But you become good at it and you're able to um do well in that field. But having the experience as a police officer, that's invaluable, I can imagine, especially when you are prosecuting uh these cases. Um you know, and being a police officer and then, you know, a prosecutor, did did either of those, both of those, you know, working in conjunction, did they change the way you represent criminal defendants today? Because today you're a criminal defense attorney, which is, you know, the third part of this you know stellar career that you have developed within the legal field. Um, how have those, you know, other professions, well, police officer and prosecutor helped you in in representing criminal defendants today?

SPEAKER_03 14:12

I think it's given me an ability to look at things from all sides and truly completely advise my client of what they're looking at and what they're facing. I can pick up the, well, before I pick up the offense report, I can have a call or consultation on the phone and get the rundown from the potential client of what happened. And, you know, immediately I'm starting to think about different things uh from the police side of things. Well, did this happen and did this happen? And that sort of thing. And then once we get to the court setting and I've got the discovery, I can look at the report and see if it matches, you know, or if it sounds like it's legitimate that it happened this way. Um, I also know what the prosecutions are able to offer as far as plea office, because I was a prosecutor. I know how they are likely going to try to prove this element and this element and this element. And conversely, whether they have anything to prove that element, that element, or that element. And so I think it's been great to be on these other two sides prior to where I am now, because and I haven't been wrong yet, knock on wood. But if I tell a client that we've got a good shot at winning this, we typically win. If I tell a client we need a plea because this is not going to work out for us, I'm always right. Whether they listen to me or not, I am always right. Whether it means prison time because you didn't believe me and you wanted to roll the dice, or if it's something like, uh, I want a trial, I think we can prevail, and you know, we win the trial because you trusted me, you listened, and it worked out. So it works for not only me, but for the client as well, I think. Maybe I should charge more.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I was gonna say, Tim, you might be my one phone call if I ever and it did any trouble.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yeah, I'm putting him on speed dial. And you're gonna catch me slipping, I got Tim in my pocket. That's right. You know, as a was there a moment in your career like whether it was as a police officer, prosecutor, defense attorney, that was there a moment that fundamentally changed how you viewed justice?

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Hmm. Yes. Um I can say, and I'll work in reverse, as a criminal defense attorney, I've seen folks who absolutely did it walk off scot-free. Um I've also seen as a um police officer, I've seen people who have been just caught up in bad situations. And, you know, I check on the case later on and I see that you know, maybe it didn't work out for them. They're in jail or something to that effect. And so it's it's it's tough, it sucks at times because you know, as a decent human, you just want good things to happen to folks, especially when they deserve good things. But the reality is there are some very bad folks out here. And as a police officer, your job is to get them off the streets. As a prosecutor, it's your job to keep them off the streets for as long as you can. But as a defense attorney, it's your job to represent their rights, make sure that their rights are protected, to zealously advocate for them. And so I don't take the approach in this phase as a defense attorney where I'm judging anybody based on what they did or they're accused of doing. It does not matter to me what you're charged with. My job, I'm going to represent you. And so some people will ask, how do you represent someone charged with this or with that? I'm not condoning whatever they're accused of doing, but my job is to represent them to the best of my ability, and I have no problem doing that. I think being a cop helped me compartmentalize things mentally, and so I'm able to take that to this facet of my life, and um it doesn't bother me what they're charged with. Um, my job is clear in my mind, and I know how to go about getting the job done and uh get the best result possible, regardless of what that may be. It may be the case gets dismissed, it may be, you know, the best plea offer that the prosecutor will offer. Sometimes I get deals just by virtue of me being a former prosecutor and having the relationship still with some of the prosecutors where um I might tell them sometime, listen, uh prosecutor Jimmy, I ain't got nothing. But I'm trying to my best to work this case out. What is the best that you can do for me so we can, you know, move this case off your docket, as opposed to some of these lawyers who they go to the prosecutors and every single client is innocent, according to them, like every client. And what that does is, you know, detract from their credibility as a lawyer now. You know, now when the prosecutor sees that lawyer coming, it's like, oh, here we go again. Um, but if the prosecutor has a great case, I will let them know and we try to work it out. If they have problems, you know, I'll let them know, and hopefully, and most times they listen and we get the case dismissed or whatever. But in the event that they don't agree, which reasonable minds can disagree, then I am more than happy to take it to a trial and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

You know, it's uh it's an interesting point you made, Tim, about you you don't judge your client. You know, you don't look at them any differently from what they've been accused of. And that is such an awesome way to look at it because that's how the justice system is supposed to look at them. The the prosecution doesn't start with the presumption that they're guilty. Right. They have to work from the bottom and build every single brick to build their case. And so you get you start off in that moment with your client, treating them just as the system should be treating them. Um, you know, and I'll say as a civil attorney, uh, you get people that will like, I'm gonna raise a fraud claim because of the emotional response it's gonna elicit. Well, that's cool, but you know, when you spend thirty thousand dolling that claim, good luck. Uh and so it I you know it's fascinating for me as a civil attorney to see, you know, just how efficient and effective you are as a criminal attorney and staying true to what we're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Indeed. It's it's a duty, I think. And I know some people could never be a defense attorney, like former prosecutors. They've even told me I can never be a defense attorney because you know they can only see things one way, or maybe they just don't like dealing with people who they may believe are guilty, whatever the case may be. I know some defense attorneys who I will never be a prosecutor. I can never send anybody to jail, whatever the case may be. But the reality is we need both. You know, somebody's got to do the job, both jobs. And um I like that I'm able to do both. I've been able to do both. I think some of that is attributed to even going back to law school and mock trial, where in the morning round you try the prosecutions case, and the evening round you try the defense case. You gotta be able to see both sides of it. You can't get too married to just one story. Um, and I think that that actually translates into real life.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, Tim, I mean, you have been able to Experienced our legal system from every angle. And in our profession, we know we all have professional courtesies and so forth, but still, there still might be a difference in opinion the way police officers handle certain things, prosecutors, defense attorneys. I know outside of our legal profession in the real world, we do see a lot of people are opinionated about different things. And but still in our field, with those, even having the professional courtesies, there still could be some misconceptions that police, prosecutors, and defense attorneys have about each other. And you know, you have this unique experience of working and experiencing all three from the inside. And so in doing that, what do you think the biggest misconception that you know they have about each other, you know, police prosecutors and defense attorneys? And um, yeah, if you if you can comment on that, what you think the biggest misconception would be?

SPEAKER_03 23:00

I think the biggest misconception is that there's hatred amongst each of each of the groups. Like you have to pick a side. Defense attorneys, you can't be friends with the prosecutor. Or um you can't be friends of the defense attorney with the police officer. That is completely false. Um, some of my best friends today, police officers, my best friends today, I met at the DA's office and we're still friends. And obviously, I have a gang of criminal defense friends now. So I think, and going back to what I said before, it's a better experience for all if even though we are engaging in this adversarial system, if we can do it cordially, professionally. Um I've never seen a situation where yelling at another professional works out for you. I mean, there's really no room for that. We can argue our points and have difference of opinions, but still talk like you know human beings. And I think some, I'll just say defense attorneys think that if they aren't slamming the prosecutor's table and yelling, their client in the back of the courtroom is not going to be pleased with their representation because you are in bed with the prosecution, or you're not really here to advocate for me. When in reality, me going in and you know, giving that prosecutor a hug or a handshake because I know them may end up getting my client a very favorable result, you know. Um, so I just think that the sooner people, and I know the question didn't include the public, but everyone realizes that we can all do this thing without being hostile, I think the better off everyone will be and the more productive that everyone will be.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

You know, that's a that's a really good point. And I imagine you carry that philosophy as a professor and director at advocacy. And you know, could you kind of explain a little bit more how you teach that to the students when they come with strong assumptions about guilt and innocence?

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Yep. Um you can't judge a book by its cover, number one, is what I tell them. And also, you know, there's two sides at least to every story. And so I'll just take my my mock trial students, for example. There's some of them who we get a case file and they just want to be the defense attorney. I just I all I can do is the defense, I want to do defense. Um, but that's not really me preparing you for the real world because in the real world, you may start off as a defense attorney, and then two or three years later, I may see you in the DA's office, or you may start off doing criminal law, and two or three years later, I may see you over at the civil courthouse. And so you've got to be able to pivot, you've got to be flexible. And I try to teach my students early on that you don't want to pigeonhole yourself. Don't be afraid to try new things. And so I do my part by pushing them as a law student to get outside of their comfort zone, to do something that you haven't done before, to make mistakes. Don't be afraid to make a mistake. Uh, I'd rather you make those now, as many as you can now, to hopefully minimize some that you will make as a professional when somebody's paying you to do a job, when you have a license on the line. Um so really just making sure the students realize that life is not cookie cutter, it's not a straight line, and you've got to be adaptable and okay with being uncomfortable sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

And those kids are lucky to have you as a professor.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

I appreciate it. We'll have to take a poll. Maybe they aren't so happy after that quiz I just gave them last night.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yeah, well, I'm gonna look you up on Rate My Professor later. I'll I'll report back results, but uh participate, they'll be good. The ones that are bad, we're just gonna assume they failed the quiz.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

You know, the credibility issue from the gate.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Absolutely. It's the problem is with them, not with me.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Timmy, talk about um, you know, how the students need to feel uncomfortable every once in a while and not just stick to one thing. Uh, I mean, how uncomfortable do you make these police officers when you're questioning them on the stand? I mean, they don't have one up on you like others do. You you've been there, done that.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

It's really, I literally smile sometimes during cross-examination. And the reason why, and the only time this happens is when there's a police officer who just has a very nasty attitude off the bat with me because I'm a defense attorney. Have no clue what I've done in my past or that I was a former prosecutor. But you'll see them on the stand, they're just us as nice and meek with the prosecutor answering their questions. And as soon as it's my turn, um, I always start off my cross-examinations, good afternoon, sir, or something to that effect, right? Just saying hello. And the ones who just sit there and look at me without saying anything back, um, I just smile and I, good afternoon, sir. Did you hear me? And then they may say good afternoon begrudgingly or whatever. And I said, it's gonna be okay, I promise you. And we just get into the examination, but um, it's funny to me. Um, it's funny to me, and I I think I do um, I don't know if I make them nervous. Uh, I just think it's more of an inherent thing where believe it or not, cops don't like court, um, most of them at least. Cops like being in control for the most part, they are in control when they're out on the street in their day-to-day lives. But the courtroom is a very uncomfortable feeling because they are not in control. They have to just sit there and answer the questions that are asked of them. They will likely have to answer for some of the mistakes that they made when they're being cross-examined. Um, and so they don't really like that at all. I don't try to make them more uncomfortable. Um, I call myself, you know, playing it straight. I just ask the questions that I have to ask without trying to make anyone look silly. Um, but you know, if you don't have an attitude with me, I won't have an attitude with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah, yeah, I I'm not trapped in here with you. You're trapped in here with me. That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

So your life changed dramatically when you became a father at 18. How did that level of responsibility at such a young age shape the way that you approached work, furthering your education, and ultimately your decision to pursue law?

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yes. Uh once I got over the shock, I realized that life is about more than just Tim and what Tim wants in the moment and you know, that sort of thing. I embraced the responsibility of having to care for another human being and you know, not just emotionally, but financially, care for someone and take care of someone. And so I had to put my goals at least in the immediate, you know, time on hold to handle my business, but I always remember what my goals were. And so I did what I had to do, maybe didn't get to the finish line as quickly as I would have wanted to, however, I got there. And um I believe that perseverance is very important in people's lives, and nothing I don't think anyone has had a life of this is exactly how I knew it was gonna go. It's been perfect every day. Things are gonna happen, and sometimes big things happen. And um, I think my big thing was having a son at 18 and um navigating those waters, but also keeping my eye on the ball, the end game. And no matter what it took, no matter how long it took, uh getting down that road and accomplishing my goals.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Awesome. Yeah, you had to grow up quick, but you didn't let that change the script.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Correct. Um added a few more characters to the script, maybe a few more plots, but the ending was the same. We end up with the goal card, the bar card.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Oh, Tim, you've man, you've given us so much great information for people that are gonna practice the profession of law, and all of them are gonna encounter the same question someday in their life. What experience made you realize the law was for you?

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Oh man, it's going back to my younger years, but um I've never had a day that I can remember at least where I thought I'm bored with what I'm doing. And that's from my time as a police officer to the DA's office to where I am now as a defense attorney. It's it's just in me. I think I found my passion. And um I think it's just always it's just been ordained that I was gonna do something in the legal world, one facet or another. Uh thank God the criminal portion of my life didn't last too long. But I got through that and um now I'm here, so I love it. Thanks, thanks, Tim. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Thank you, Tim. What what a what a wonderful uh feeling to have that confirmation on a day-to-day basis that what you're doing is is what you're supposed to be doing, and to feel fulfilled at the end of the day and you know, give back also because I mean, not only are you an attorney practicing law, you also, I mean, you went back to the university that you graduated from as a law student and you're a professor, and um, you are also teaching these kids and guiding them in making this career choice. And so I think I thank you for everything you do. Thank you for you know participating today on the podcast. It's been a joy to hear from you and all three sides of your profession. And um we we really enjoyed having you and yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

It's been quite the honor and pleasure for me. I appreciate you guys inviting me and looking forward to seeing you all again soon.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Thank you for joining us on Young Gunners, Unlikely Advocates, where we celebrate the resilience and impact of lawyers who turn challenges into change. You can find this episode as well as all past and upcoming ones on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Until next time, keep advocating, keep transforming, and above all, keep inspiring.